to add comments so far from original poll.

Cedric :-
It's true.
We used to be able to do so much, but now we get pwned by most important bosses.
An attempt to slaughter Lady Vashj quickly turns into a mass murder (and she's not the one getting hurt)

Instead of removing all the scripts, you could also implement more.. simple scripts.
Of course if that isn't a possibility, script removal would be better.



Nighthawk17 :-
I say yes! remove them. I miss the days we could do bosses in really, really small groups while not dying, and we could gear our alts easilly. Now.. well now it's just terrible for an alt. You get wiped in a few seconds. It's not a funserver if you get wiped. I want to gear my shaman for healing too.. but well it's just not possible since it's hard to find a good group. And even if it's a good group it's still terrible.

Edit: woops sorry KP didn't see that last post hehe.

Might I add it's not only a funserver thing, a lot of Blizzlike servers do it too just because of the fact that most scripts are bugged terribly. They just make the melee damage higher then.

I'd be all for this espically with the bosses have these really small drops for the amount of time it takes to down them. 4 million hitpoint mobs take a long ass time to kill for one or 2 purples mostof which are then just broken into shards.

Another very, very good point.
Imagine: You have a 15 man raid and you really want, let's say.. Memento of Tyrande. BUT: There are others that want it. So, even knowing this, you keep on healing your party members. You even rolled between the other casters/healers. But you rolled the lowest.
So, here's the catch: you healed your party members alot and in the end, you see the item getting taken away before your own eyes.

Few days later, you go to Illidan (in this case). And you rolled right, you rolled the highest. You feel better because you know you'll get that darned Memento. You heal, heal and heal. Illidan perishes in the air and drops on the floor. Dead.
You move your cursor over his corpse and you right click.
The Memento isn't there.

Rather frustrating, no?

i dont see how removing scripting would help. it will just make stuff boring again, I say if you just want to hit mobs standing around why not start your own server or goto countless other "fun" servers? also i am open to modifying AP/DMG/HP for mobs.

No ... just no.

Perhaps you could make a section in the forum in which people can post a boss they like to see modified.

Ok Damg then. Example BT mob Gorefiend should this mob be able to come up and one shot a full donor priest with 46k hitpoints after being un attackable? Another example Should Attumen in Kara be shadow cleaving full donor warriors for 25k?

I can aggree that having a boss mob just sit there and get beat to death is not a solid answer but its brought up because people are going into these raids and being slaughtered. And again back to the drop point, the players that are able to down the boss mobs are then treated to a badge of honor and one or 2 epics. This post is more or less a cry from ppl to get a little more enjoyment out of the server not a simple nerf so they can mindlessly autoattack bosses to death.

overall as KP said, removing the scripts would be pointless as that would 'take away' from the den... we may be able to change some of the scripts later on to make them a lil weaker but overall we are NOT removing anything

How much "fun" would killing bosses with one or two hits be anyway?
If you want it to be really "fun" make it so bosses die when you look at them the wrong way!!

I maybe have a good idea. You don't HAVE to agree but.. why not make every boss pre-SWP/BT/Hyjal scriptless, while making the bosses in the endgame instances harder? Not many people do the T3-5 instances anymore due to the fact they're hard, and the things you get are "less good" then the things you get in SWP/BT/SSC, wich is just bogus because the stuff that drops there is just as nice to have. There's this thing called Raid Progress, point of it is, doing raids in order of item quality. On retail you can't just enter BT in outland greens and survive. We should do the same, maybe we should make TK/SSC/Kara/MagT/Gruul etc easier.. while keeping the SWP/BT/Hyjal bosses with scripts.. That way, gearing would be a lot easier, and it's recreative anyways, it keeps us busy. It would also give the so called "Weekend Warriors",better known as "Casual Raiders", a chance to get some decent looking gear. Also, you would see a lot more variety of gear running around the server. At this moment all you see is donators, tier 6, and sunwell geared players. If you would make SSC/TK/Kara easier, you would see people in Tier 4, 5, and a bigger variety of other gears. Back in the soloing days I wasn't bored at all by the way. Together with Cedrics from the forums we geared up in SSC/TK without problems, and it was amusing! It's the bugs and hard bosses combined with poor loot that make it a terrible and frustrating gameplay. It would also give low levels the chance to join with 255's to SSC/TK or whatever, to gear up. So please consider it, it would be something we all like I think, and i wouldn't have written all this for nothing

Greetz, Nighthawk17

It is indeed.. a mouth full
And I agree with the part to make it easier for players to gear up. But still, some bosses in BT should be nerfed drastically.

Sometimes, players search for a way to 'bug' the boss. And that ain't the main point of the game, now is it? Night's idea is a good one If and only IF the bosses in SWP/BT/SSC get nerfed.

They shouldn't be nerfed, they should be fixed. But at this moment I think only.. oh.. 10 percent of the raid bosses are doable? The rest is all too damn hard to do in a group. If we make the pre-BT instances soloable, or at least 2 mannable.. well then the server would be more fun. Personally I like the content before the Black Temple was opened a LOT more then the current content. So it would be nice to return to those instances again.

Just reduce the damage the bosses do. That way the "new" players still stand a chance to get full T6...

Sarcasm- Lets just make the bosses friendly, and add chests next to them with all their drops.
Lazy- Spawn bosses in elwynn forest, and give them all 1 HP.
Logical - lets work on the scripts, adjust hitpoints/damage to suit our environment.

Yes it' a "fun" server, simply because that's the closest description the private server community has that comes close to fitting us. Really tho, we don't fit in that niche entirely either. What we try to offer is a unique playing environment you can't get anywhere else. I'd rather not go back to the old "tank n spank" days. It was boring, it discouraged large raids, encouraged soloing. It's an MMO, after all.

I've always felt a 5 man instance should be just about soloable here, maybe a 2 player effort, and that the larger instances should be doable by 5 player raid party, if they know their roles and use tactics. I'm all for adjusting the instances to that benchmark, and I'll be more then happy to devote time and energy to doing so. The new donor project is just about finished, that should free several of us staff people up to tackle this issue.

I read all the comments here, and i`m 50-50 with the ideas, i`m old here, i know how was the the instances before, and personally, it was just boring. Now... i`m terrified thinking of an illidan hiting with 1mil aura damage, that`s the only problem, prolly remnoving some of the damage the bosses, but keeping them scripted will still be fun.

now mother and council its almost imposible to be killed guys...just do something so a raid with lets say 3-4 dps and 3-4 healers can kill mother pls.i tryed to kill mother and council with a lot of healers and dps(a lot of donator ppls)and it seems to be immposible((.and illidan its really hard too! this is very important cuz despite there are a lot of donators and they have donator gear there are ppls who want a diversisty of gears(tankadin healadin for pala,tank for warr etc).and hyjal sucks too last time i didnt found archie! its just really annoying!

I dunno...

I've logged on to find last night's buddy having gained 120 levels (because of a bug) just for logging in and having soloed all of Hyjal 5 times in 2 hours.

I've gotten really nice drops when doing Hyjal 3-4 times in a row in a 5-group.

20 levels later and with a bit of better gear and greater skills, I've known the utter frustration and surprise of wiping on Archie 3 times in a row with the same (also improved) 5-group. And a full-donor warrior tanking.

I honestly think that bosses are way too hard atm. And I also think that with an average of 45-55 people online at any given time that it's hard to slap together a balanced group of experienced and likely-minded people to try anything.

I don't think anybody has asked for bosses to drop dead when you look at them. I don't think anyone is asking for bosses to be soloable by an ill-geared 200 priest either.

I just think that people are asking for 'doable' bosses. Scripted or not.

I remember full-donor warriors soloing all of Kharazan at level 225 to get the Mongoose enchant from Moroes... That may have been pushing too far in the other direction, but it doesn't mean that today's situation is better.

Once again, with such a small population, 2-hour 5-man raids are a rare occurrence on The Den even within very active guilds.

Regards,


cmoa ~ 3 chars with a T6 hat from the easy Archi days, and that's about it

I like the chest idea myself :P but seriously I dont see a point in making all bosses soloable. Its more fun having guild raids than doing bosses alone., I should know I can solo most of em :P. Maybe if the loot tables were also adjusted so the odds of getting items were greater people wouldnt look to solo bosses for fear of ninjas or losing a roll 30 times.

(opinion of a server admin and a game player) I dont see any reason to remove scripting. I am open to ideas of modifying stuff like AP/HP/Armor/Aggro but I dont see any reason WHATSOEVER to remove scripting. I voted no.